{"id":8279,"date":"2021-01-26T12:56:29","date_gmt":"2021-01-26T11:56:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/?p=8279"},"modified":"2025-08-04T13:46:38","modified_gmt":"2025-08-04T11:46:38","slug":"transgressive-mediation-in-conversation-with-ed-watzke-podcast-25","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/blog\/transgressive-mediation-in-conversation-with-ed-watzke-podcast-25\/","title":{"rendered":"Transgressive mediation. In conversation with Ed Watzke (INKOVEMA podcast #25)"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-1 fusion-flex-container gradient-container-1 nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1144px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-0 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-column-has-shadow fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-1 sep-underline sep-solid fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-four\"><h4 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-left fusion-responsive-typography-calculated\" style=\"margin:0;--fontSize:16;--minFontSize:16;line-height:1.5;\"><h4>INKOVEMA Podcast &#8222;Well through time&#8220;<\/h4><\/h4><\/div><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-2 sep-underline sep-solid fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-one\"><h1 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-left fusion-responsive-typography-calculated\" style=\"margin:0;--fontSize:34;line-height:1.4;\"><h1>#25 &#8211; Transgressive Mediation<\/h1><\/h1><\/div><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-3 sep-underline sep-solid fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-three\"><h3 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-left fusion-responsive-typography-calculated\" style=\"margin:0;--fontSize:20;line-height:1.5;\"><h2>Enabling the path to peace with metaphors. Cross-border mediation for highly escalated conflicts. In conversation with Ed Watzke.<\/h2><\/h3><\/div><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-1\"><p>Well through time. The podcast about mediation, conflict coaching and organisational consulting.<\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"fusion-separator fusion-full-width-sep\" style=\"align-self: center;margin-left: auto;margin-right: auto;margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:20px;width:100%;\"><div class=\"fusion-separator-border sep-single\" style=\"--awb-height:20px;--awb-amount:20px;--awb-sep-color:#ffffff;border-color:#ffffff;border-top-width:1px;\"><\/div><\/div><script class=\"podigee-podcast-player\" src=\"https:\/\/player.podigee-cdn.net\/podcast-player\/javascripts\/podigee-podcast-player.js\" data-configuration=\"https:\/\/inkovema.podigee.io\/25-neue-episode\/embed?context=external\"><\/script><div class=\"fusion-separator fusion-full-width-sep\" style=\"align-self: center;margin-left: auto;margin-right: auto;margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:20px;width:100%;\"><div class=\"fusion-separator-border sep-single\" style=\"--awb-height:20px;--awb-amount:20px;--awb-sep-color:#ffffff;border-color:#ffffff;border-top-width:1px;\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-2\"><p class=\"p1\"><b>Dr Ed Watzke,<\/b> Born in 1951, studied sociology and education at the University of Vienna, mediator, social worker and psychotherapist, has overturned the phase-orientated understanding of mediation in German-speaking countries in thousands of mediation cases (primarily in out-of-court settlements). His <strong><em>transgressive mediation, <\/em><\/strong>Carried by metaphors, irritations, humorous but persistent border crossings, the mediation horse is bridled from behind. Peace Now! First the peace agreement, then the work (of the client). Mediation is not win-win, but pay-pay. In an interview with Sascha Weigel, Ed Watzke explains what this means in concrete terms and how mediators can proceed.<\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"fusion-separator fusion-full-width-sep\" style=\"align-self: center;margin-left: auto;margin-right: auto;margin-top:20px;margin-bottom:20px;width:100%;\"><div class=\"fusion-separator-border sep-single\" style=\"--awb-height:20px;--awb-amount:20px;--awb-sep-color:#ffffff;border-color:#ffffff;border-top-width:1px;\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-3\"><h2>Contents:<\/h2>\n<p class=\"p1\">Transgressive mediation was largely formulated by the Austrian mediator Ed Watzke and later expanded into the \"metaphor bridge\". This is a holistic, situational approach. Watzke also sees the role and task of the mediator as facilitating a basis for communication that is suitable for dialogue, whereby he follows the \"way of the court jester\". With the help of metaphors, exaggerations and exaggerations, without offending, he invites the participants to an \"equilibristic dance\", which begins with an unequivocal commitment to tread the \"path of peace\". This style has been developed primarily on the basis of highly escalated (ongoing) conflicts.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Normopathy in society<\/strong>:\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p class=\"p1\">For Watzke, the need for a transgressive approach arises from the social tendency towards normopathy, the \"disease\/disorder\" of compulsively adhering to predetermined rules without questioning them and not knowing what to do when useful rules and guidelines do not exist at all. And especially in times when the future is in doubt, such as during conflicts, useful rules and routines are few and far between.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<li><strong>Irritation work by mediators<\/strong>:<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">Mediation is pay-pay, not win-win.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Procedure in transgressive mediation<\/strong>:\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p class=\"p1\">In the here and now of mediation, it is first and foremost about taking the first small step towards peace. Mediation is not win-win at all, but <b><i>pay-pay<\/i><\/b>! The parties must <b><i>Invest in the peace relationship<\/i><\/b>A mediator does not need to start before that.  Only the direction of the first step is important, not its size. A small first step is sufficient, but must be perceived and recognised as such by the other party.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div><div style=\"text-align:center;\"><a class=\"fusion-button button-flat fusion-button-default-size button-default fusion-button-default button-1 fusion-button-default-span fusion-button-default-type\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/blog\/mediation-is-pay-pay-and-not-win-win\/\"><span class=\"fusion-button-icon-divider button-icon-divider-left\"><i class=\"fa-info-circle fas awb-button__icon awb-button__icon--default\" aria-hidden=\"true\"><\/i><\/span><span class=\"fusion-button-text awb-button__text awb-button__text--default fusion-button-text-left\">Blog post: Mediation is pay-pay, not win-win. Transgressive mediation for highly escalated conflicts in long-term relationships.<\/span><\/a><\/div><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-4\"><h2>Literature:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p class=\"p1\"><em>Watzke, E.:<\/em> Equilibristic dance between worlds. On the way to a transgressive mediation, 3rd edition, M\u00f6nchengladbach 2004.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p class=\"p1\"><em>Watzke, E.:<\/em> \"Wahrscheinlich hat diese Geschichte gar nichts mit Ihnen zu tun ...\", Geschichten, Metaphern, Spr\u00fcche und Aphorismen in der Mediation, 2nd edition, M\u00f6nchengladbach 2008.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li><em>Gigerenzer, G.<\/em>: Risk. How to make the right decisions. New York, 2020.<\/li>\n<li><em>Gigerenzer, G.: <\/em>Gut decisions. The intelligence of the unconscious and the power of intuition. New York, 2007.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":8281,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[314,98,42,92],"tags":[499,497,501,28,227,498,500,128],"class_list":["post-8279","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-inkovema-podcast","category-mediationsstile","category-podcast","category-sozialpsychologie","tag-friedenspfad","tag-irritation","tag-mediationsphasen","tag-mediationsstil","tag-metaphern","tag-normopathie","tag-oesterreich","tag-transgressive-mediation"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8279","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8279"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8279\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/8281"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8279"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8279"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dev.inkovema.de\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8279"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}